2500HD ZR2 500 Mile Review
- Thread starter AXE
- Start date
Ultimately, they are both very capable and will move the load down the roadā¦same frame, same suspension, same cab/bed, hubs, etc. The load rating difference is likely just due to the weight difference of the two motors (Iām assuming here as it all boils down to gross weight vs whether the motor will āpull itā) The difference is really how rapidly it will move the weight, STOP the weight, and how hard the motor works to move the same weight.Axe question....what is your opinion on the Gasser as far as towing?? I live in the south with 95% FLAT roads...so no huge grades etc and are thinking about a 5th wheel around 16,500 LOADED(13K-ish dry) and I LOVE THIS TRUCK....Just not sure for my situation I really need to spend the extra 9500 for the diesel and pricy maintenance cost, not to mention depending on the problem could take MONTHS to get part and install due to "supply chain issues" blah blah blah.....
So what do you think? I've seen countless vids where the gasser max tow for 5th wheel/gooseneck is 18,100 while the diesel is 18,500.......?.......
Watch some videos of what ol 1990 Ford Rangers pull in various countries around the worldā¦man hasnāt yet reached the GVWR for a 1990 Ford Ranger four banger with a five speedā¦maybe some day man kind will find it! Point is, not much can get a lot rollingā¦safety isnāt tied to the motor.
If I were pulling all that often (which I do) regardless of where I livedā¦I would own diesel trucks (which I do). Mainly because they just tow āeasierāā¦BUT in full transparency it comes at a cost up front, at the pump, fuel treatment, and increased oil change and fuel filters. I get quite a bit of that back in resale and thatās how I justify it. The emissions aspect is starting to turn many of guys in my area towards the new wave of HD gas motorsā¦just too many things nowadays stacked against the oil burners unless you just simply āwant oneā
my next HD, will be a diesel as equipment, cattle, and hay are heavy and I just like the torque on tap, but it will also have the high idle switch as I idle a lot around the farm and want to help alleviate at least some of the emission issues via high idle.
Hope that helps
Ok...and what if you weren't pulling that often?? And you had no use of high idle because you don't idle your truck that much to need that function?? Would you consider the new HD gasser then?(also living and traveling in Flat land areas but not towing that amount of weight that often throughout the year)
100%, itās completely capable - and itās lower cost of entry, lower cost to drive every dayā¦and y donāt need to high idle a gasser. It may work a bit harder when you do pull (keep in mind itās what they are made for) but given itās not that often, I see it as being the ideal solution for your use case.
Hook it up and give it hell!
- Thread starter
- #66
Only two things you're going to be missing. One is the torque of the diesel to get loads moving in a gasser. Your gonna run much higher rpms getting that much weight moving. The second thing you're giving up is engine braking to stop heavy loads that you get with a diesel. My two favorite things about the diesel is high torque/low rpms and engine braking makes it much easier to tow.
If that's worth $9K or $800 per year for you, then you should get it. To me, it's worth way more than that, so I feel like it's a good deal.
I think the gasser is better for loads under 12k, probably closer to 10k. A lot of guys going to gassers for work or fleets aren't towing a lot, they are service trucks with utility beds (plumbers, HVAC, electricians) or doing lighter tow loads.
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I went with gas because of emissions and money. The emissions systems suck on diesels. Deleting them is getting harder and more expensive. I also think you really have to tow a lot to be worthwhile. 3 gallon oil changes, 50 dollar fuel filters. DEF if not deleted. All that and they don't really get great mileage. My last duramax averaged 14-15. Sure I could get 21-22mpg on the highway. But i typically averaged 15mpg with mixed driving. With the cost of diesel fuel, a little better mileage isn't saving anything at the pump.
They tow better and personally I love the sound of a tuned straight piped Diesel. But you really do have to tow with them often or heavy. for them to be worth it.
They tow better and personally I love the sound of a tuned straight piped Diesel. But you really do have to tow with them often or heavy. for them to be worth it.
#THIS is my position as well!
securityguy
Well-known member
This is the direction I am headed as well for the same reasons and my short distance driving.
Kel
Active member
Same here. I would have gone with diesel if it was a pre 2007 version meaning no A/T. Actually the pre 04 didnāt even have a cat.
With all the SCR/DEF and DPF issues and not towing much gas is the best option.
With all the SCR/DEF and DPF issues and not towing much gas is the best option.
- Thread starter
- #72
I don't think the DEF/DPF emissions systems are that unreliable on modern diesels. Sure it's the one item you hear the most about and I've experienced 3 minor issues with my last Duramax in 9.5 years of running it.
1) DEF temp sensor, 2) 9th injector, 3) egt sensor (that's also on every truck).
Total down time was 4.5 days, with the DEF temp sensor taking 2.5 days. Only cost was $367 for the diagnosis and repair of EGT sensor last week. Only other thing I've replaced at my expense is lower ball joints due to cracked boots and thermostats. That truck is a loaded LTZ that lays down more power than the current 24 offering. My boy is still driving that rig today and I expect to have normal maintenance for some time to come. It was 70% daily driver in traffic, 25% towing recreational gear, 5% idling for warm ups, traffic, etc. I've short tripped many times and shut down during regen several times. Start up again and keep rolling with no real concerns. Truck only cost me $56k. Overall very reliable and inexpensive truck for me.
Contrast that with my new ZR2 and I've just logged my second electrical problem this morning in 6 weeks and less than 800 miles. First trip to dealer did not resolve issue and now I need a second trip for two issues. I will have already logged 3+ days at the dealer by 2 month mark.
If your sitting around thinking your gonna avoid problems with a gasser, but neglecting to remember that these trucks share notable electronic problems that are 3 years running, you don't understand what's happening in the current market. These trucks may be the least reliable truck you'll have owned, gas or diesel. That's just how it is for $75-95k. Get to know your dealer and have a chase truck available for downtime.
1) DEF temp sensor, 2) 9th injector, 3) egt sensor (that's also on every truck).
Total down time was 4.5 days, with the DEF temp sensor taking 2.5 days. Only cost was $367 for the diagnosis and repair of EGT sensor last week. Only other thing I've replaced at my expense is lower ball joints due to cracked boots and thermostats. That truck is a loaded LTZ that lays down more power than the current 24 offering. My boy is still driving that rig today and I expect to have normal maintenance for some time to come. It was 70% daily driver in traffic, 25% towing recreational gear, 5% idling for warm ups, traffic, etc. I've short tripped many times and shut down during regen several times. Start up again and keep rolling with no real concerns. Truck only cost me $56k. Overall very reliable and inexpensive truck for me.
Contrast that with my new ZR2 and I've just logged my second electrical problem this morning in 6 weeks and less than 800 miles. First trip to dealer did not resolve issue and now I need a second trip for two issues. I will have already logged 3+ days at the dealer by 2 month mark.
If your sitting around thinking your gonna avoid problems with a gasser, but neglecting to remember that these trucks share notable electronic problems that are 3 years running, you don't understand what's happening in the current market. These trucks may be the least reliable truck you'll have owned, gas or diesel. That's just how it is for $75-95k. Get to know your dealer and have a chase truck available for downtime.
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I think you have just had some bad luck AXE. My 22 ZR2 never had a issue other than the brake controller deal when new. They fixed it in about an hour while I waited. It never went back to the dealer for 20k miles. The HD is at 900 miles and so far I haven't had a single issue. The infotainment seems improved and faster. Probably just running newer software than my 22 had. Runs great shifts like butter.
On the other hand I think you got kind of lucky on the old Duramax. Emissions is definitely their weak point. I've got a buddy who manages a fleet of them. The extra back pressure and heat caused by the DPF causes all kinds of problems. Not to mention the DEF system, pumps and injectors. The LMLs will actually crack pistons, lol. I've seen it first hand. Reason why I deleted mine at 23k miles and voided the 50k power train warranty. That truck is a 2011 at 200k miles and has never been back to a dealer once.
- Thread starter
- #74
I just found out the DEF system on my 2015 is still under warranty until 123k miles. Why 123k, seems random, I have no idea, but the government requires these emissions systems to function for 10 years, so they have to fix them.
I know many people with Duramaxes and I've never heard anyone really complain about them. A few with DPFs plugged and having to do force regens and a couple with 9th injector issues.
My only other experience is with two Rams I use for business. Never had an issue with DEF/DPF emissions, with exception of one DPF code my Dad got. I told him to put it into 3 or 4 the gear and hold 3000 rpms down the highway at 70 mph. Problem solved and never came back. Now when he leaves the farm, he's hammer down for 5 miles. I say what's the hurry? He says that's what you told me to do, so I do it.......not bad for a 79 year old farm boy.......LOL!
I know many people with Duramaxes and I've never heard anyone really complain about them. A few with DPFs plugged and having to do force regens and a couple with 9th injector issues.
My only other experience is with two Rams I use for business. Never had an issue with DEF/DPF emissions, with exception of one DPF code my Dad got. I told him to put it into 3 or 4 the gear and hold 3000 rpms down the highway at 70 mph. Problem solved and never came back. Now when he leaves the farm, he's hammer down for 5 miles. I say what's the hurry? He says that's what you told me to do, so I do it.......not bad for a 79 year old farm boy.......LOL!
Kel
Active member
I have a 2011 3500 Ram. It eats O2 sensors. Replaced both sensor at least three times.
I work in the diesel industry and if you dont load them they tend to have issues. Glad to see you have good luck otherwise.
I work in the diesel industry and if you dont load them they tend to have issues. Glad to see you have good luck otherwise.
- Thread starter
- #76
One of the 2500 Rams we had was a 2011 and nearly 0 problems, I think it had a tierod recall. Had 2014 3500 dually Laramie Longhorn, that was the sweetest rig I've ever been in. Sold it after my Dad got rid of his 5er. Still have a 2018 2500. No real issues with any of them. They worked hard, but didn't pile on the miles.
I have a Chase truck for downtime, however just BECAUSE I have one doesn't mean I can tolerate the downtime. If I were at home and worked around the house...sure...but contracting out on the road...I don't have time for 4.5 days...2.5 days etc downtime...or from my coworkers with multiple different diesels ranging from 2005 model Ford this and chevy that to current newer models having the problems they have and downtime because such and such part isn't availability or the dealer or other maintenance shops that have WEEKS of waiting time to even get seen about the problem....
I understand your "both gasser and diesel will have problems, especially electronics sharing the same system" etc etc....but again I have multiple coworkers from all over the country on these projects I go on and I get MANY REAL WORLD situations and opinions from their Experience with diesel vs gas and I can tell you....so far for years now....the gasser generally has less problems and less downtime.....
Do some gasser have more downtime than diesels??....SURE...but again from my analysis of both from multiple guys experiencing...the gasser seems to have less downtime/problems... and again it all depends on YOUR specific needs and situation....I DO love the diesels power and sound thou
- Thread starter
- #78
Unfortunately, if you can't afford downtime, you might need three trucks, not two. If you've bought anything in the last few years it's part of your initiation fee.
I've never seen so many posts about electronic problems and bad parts on trucks since my first time on a ZR2 truck forum in 1998 when I was using a dial up modem.
The post covid world runs off mediocrity and you have to accept it and pay up. You don't have to like it or admit it, but things are a mess. These poor quality truck parts and electronics are just one example.
Hopefully it's less issues going forward, but with each new member on this forum it seems they often lead in with problems.
What octane are you using?
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