Hitch weight and payload

[Wampa]

I’ve been unable to find anyone’s experience with trailering and hitch weight. I know (based on my truck’s label) my ZR2 can tow up to 8800lbs with a (max) hitch weight of 880, and max payload of 1036lbs. I also know the rear is gonna sag, so helper springs or ‘bags are pretty much a necessity (I’m looking at prolly going w/ the RAS helper springs mentioned in various other threads).

The travel trailers I’m looking into range from ~4500-7500lbs, with hitch weights ~400-700. My real concern with the higher hitch weights are the commensurate reduction in payload capacity in the truck. As I understand weight distribution, a hitch weight of 700lbs leaves me only 336lbs for cargo. Add my wife and me to that (~285 lbs total—me 170, wife 115), and we barely have 50lbs for gear in the cab and bed, which is not much at all. It also makes having the truck bed pointless, imo.

I’m new to a travel trailer and any real towing, so any insight is welcome! (I’ve only really ever towed a single-axle flatbed trailer w/ snow machines or quads on it, so nothing super heavy, maybe 2000lbs total.)

 

[GATORB8]

I’ve been unable to find anyone’s experience with trailering and hitch weight. I know (based on my truck’s label) my ZR2 can tow up to 8800lbs with a (max) hitch weight of 880, and max payload of 1036lbs. I also know the rear is gonna sag, so helper springs or ‘bags are pretty much a necessity (I’m looking at prolly going w/ the RAS helper springs mentioned in various other threads).

The travel trailers I’m looking into range from ~4500-7500lbs, with hitch weights ~400-700. My real concern with the higher hitch weights are the commensurate reduction in payload capacity in the truck. As I understand weight distribution, a hitch weight of 700lbs leaves me only 336lbs for cargo. Add my wife and me to that (~285 lbs total—me 170, wife 115), and we barely have 50lbs for gear in the cab and bed, which is not much at all. It also makes having the truck bed pointless, imo.

I’m new to a travel trailer and any real towing, so any insight is welcome! (I’ve only really ever towed a single-axle flatbed trailer w/ snow machines or quads on it, so nothing super heavy, maybe 2000lbs total.)

Those are GVW of the trailers or dry? What terrain and distance are you looking at pulling?

Travel trailers tend to be more taxing to pull than a utility trailer with a smaller profile, you are basically pulling a sail. I wouldn't touch the stated max tows on today's half tons, but the ZR2 is downrated pretty good for rear suspension. I wouldn't consider towing anywhere near 10k.

While tongue weight vs payload is a game in smaller trucks, remember you can throw all that crap in the trailer as long as you keep in mind the balance of the trailer over it's axle(s).

Assuming you are fairly long distances and fighting grade changes/mountainous terrain. I would err on the side of lighter is better, which should give you a better towing experience.

I'm far from a travel trailer expert, but I've towed a good amount and have built a camper before. Hopefully you'll get some more feedback, but my gut would be:
1. Weight distribution setup instead of bags (or at least with your bags)
2. Dry Weight around 5k or under. (You'll be surprised how much weight you'll add, and remember water is 8.5 lbs/gallon).
3. Practice and learn to set trailer brake gain and how to use tow/haul and manual shifting on decline grades.
4. Trailer mirrors or extensions.

 

[AXE]

Those are GVW of the trailers or dry? What terrain and distance are you looking at pulling?

Travel trailers tend to be more taxing to pull than a utility trailer with a smaller profile, you are basically pulling a sail. I wouldn't touch the stated max tows on today's half tons, but the ZR2 is downrated pretty good for rear suspension. I wouldn't consider towing anywhere near 10k.

While tongue weight vs payload is a game in smaller trucks, remember you can throw all that crap in the trailer as long as you keep in mind the balance of the trailer over it's axle(s).

Assuming you are fairly long distances and fighting grade changes/mountainous terrain. I would err on the side of lighter is better, which should give you a better towing experience.

I'm far from a travel trailer expert, but I've towed a good amount and have built a camper before. Hopefully you'll get some more feedback, but my gut would be:
1. Weight distribution setup instead of bags (or at least with your bags)
2. Dry Weight around 5k or under. (You'll be surprised how much weight you'll add, and remember water is 8.5 lbs/gallon).
3. Practice and learn to set trailer brake gain and how to use tow/haul and manual shifting on decline grades.
4. Trailer mirrors or extensions.

I think that assessment is spot on.

I use a weight distribution hitch and air bags on my tow rigs. Makes for a nice setup. I always run my rig across the scales with load that is new me or I suspect is close. I've been at near max for the rear axle plenty, but only once was I over by 150 lbs. I moved a few items to middle of camper and went on my way. Loading the trailer correctly and leveled will keep your rear axle from being overloaded in most cases.

I see 1500s pulling 2500HD loads and 2500HD pulling 3500/4500/5500 loads all the time. Also trailers loaded impoperly. Very sketchy and unsafe!

 

[8ball_99]

What exactly are you wanting to know? The way weight ratings work is whichever number you max out first is the limit. Max tow rating almost never matters, normally it's payload or axle weight rating. Actually towing 8,900lb trailer with 1,000lb of payload is impossible without going over weight.

Asking what they can pull is a loaded question. Try to stay with in all the ratings. Don't listen to randoms on the internet that tell you they pull a dozer with their 1/2 ton and it does fine, lol Sama as ignore the ones who say you need a 3/4 for any towing. Just go by the ratings. If you tow often or far try to leave a decent margin.

Realistically with that payload you are looking at 6k or less GVWR trailer. Ignore that 8900lb number. 10% tongue weight is the bare min. Ideally your going to want 12-15%. 15% of 6k is 900lb. So unless you are really skinny, even that's probably a bit much.

 

[Wampa]

Thanks for the replies! I’m tracking pretty much all of what you’re saying. I provided GVWR of the trailers because I don’t intend to get too close to the 8800lbs my truck can tow (I see a lot of people ref’g 8900lbs, but my decal only shows 8800–I’m going with my truck’s label). Also, as originally stated, I’m planning on the RAS active suspension bolt-on (seems as good, and easier to install, than airbags).

I live in AK—mountainous terrain is standard up here. It’s also a big state, so distances can be several hundred miles, pretty standard. (There’s a little snark in these answers…)

The question I’m asking is specifically about the hitch/tongue weight. Is my understanding correct? My truck’s max payload is 1036. I weigh 170, my wife weighs 115. That brings payload down to ~750. A hitch weight of 600 brings available payload down to 150. So all I’d be able to load into the truck (total, regardless if it’s in the cab or bed) is 150lbs. Everything else has to go in the trailer. (Was an aviator in the USAF, so I have experience with weight and balance and how that would apply to a trailer.)

And just to clarify, nowhere was I asking how much can it tow—I’m familiar enough with safety and ratings, etc., so I won’t get into that. Ratings are there for a reason. And yes, I’ve seen those knucklehead 1/2 tons pulling well beyond their limits—I’m not one of those guys.

 

[DNZR2]

@Wampa FYI my 2022 was 8900. My new 2025 is 8800 so somewhere along the line they got derated 100 pounds.

 

[AXE]

Thanks for the replies! I’m tracking pretty much all of what you’re saying. I provided GVWR of the trailers because I don’t intend to get too close to the 8800lbs my truck can tow (I see a lot of people ref’g 8900lbs, but my decal only shows 8800–I’m going with my truck’s label). Also, as originally stated, I’m planning on the RAS active suspension bolt-on (seems as good, and easier to install, than airbags).

I live in AK—mountainous terrain is standard up here. It’s also a big state, so distances can be several hundred miles, pretty standard. (There’s a little snark in these answers…)

The question I’m asking is specifically about the hitch/tongue weight. Is my understanding correct? My truck’s max payload is 1036. I weigh 170, my wife weighs 115. That brings payload down to ~750. A hitch weight of 600 brings available payload down to 150. So all I’d be able to load into the truck (total, regardless if it’s in the cab or bed) is 150lbs. Everything else has to go in the trailer. (Was an aviator in the USAF, so I have experience with weight and balance and how that would apply to a trailer.)

And just to clarify, nowhere was I asking how much can it tow—I’m familiar enough with safety and ratings, etc., so I won’t get into that. Ratings are there for a reason. And yes, I’ve seen those knucklehead 1/2 tons pulling well beyond their limits—I’m not one of those guys.

Ask the dealer if you can tow the camper to the scales. Throw a little weight in the bed and camper and see how it sits on the scales.

That trailer and those concrete blocks don't look like much. But they hit damn near 13k lbs.

 

[GATORB8]

Thanks for the replies! I’m tracking pretty much all of what you’re saying. I provided GVWR of the trailers because I don’t intend to get too close to the 8800lbs my truck can tow (I see a lot of people ref’g 8900lbs, but my decal only shows 8800–I’m going with my truck’s label). Also, as originally stated, I’m planning on the RAS active suspension bolt-on (seems as good, and easier to install, than airbags).

I live in AK—mountainous terrain is standard up here. It’s also a big state, so distances can be several hundred miles, pretty standard. (There’s a little snark in these answers…)

The question I’m asking is specifically about the hitch/tongue weight. Is my understanding correct? My truck’s max payload is 1036. I weigh 170, my wife weighs 115. That brings payload down to ~750. A hitch weight of 600 brings available payload down to 150. So all I’d be able to load into the truck (total, regardless if it’s in the cab or bed) is 150lbs. Everything else has to go in the trailer. (Was an aviator in the USAF, so I have experience with weight and balance and how that would apply to a trailer.)

And just to clarify, nowhere was I asking how much can it tow—I’m familiar enough with safety and ratings, etc., so I won’t get into that. Ratings are there for a reason. And yes, I’ve seen those knucklehead 1/2 tons pulling well beyond their limits—I’m not one of those guys.

Yes, your payload calculation is accurate. Thats normally the first to get burned up.

 

[8ball_99]

Thanks for the replies! I’m tracking pretty much all of what you’re saying. I provided GVWR of the trailers because I don’t intend to get too close to the 8800lbs my truck can tow (I see a lot of people ref’g 8900lbs, but my decal only shows 8800–I’m going with my truck’s label). Also, as originally stated, I’m planning on the RAS active suspension bolt-on (seems as good, and easier to install, than airbags).

I live in AK—mountainous terrain is standard up here. It’s also a big state, so distances can be several hundred miles, pretty standard. (There’s a little snark in these answers…)

The question I’m asking is specifically about the hitch/tongue weight. Is my understanding correct? My truck’s max payload is 1036. I weigh 170, my wife weighs 115. That brings payload down to ~750. A hitch weight of 600 brings available payload down to 150. So all I’d be able to load into the truck (total, regardless if it’s in the cab or bed) is 150lbs. Everything else has to go in the trailer. (Was an aviator in the USAF, so I have experience with weight and balance and how that would apply to a trailer.)

And just to clarify, nowhere was I asking how much can it tow—I’m familiar enough with safety and ratings, etc., so I won’t get into that. Ratings are there for a reason. And yes, I’ve seen those knucklehead 1/2 tons pulling well beyond their limits—I’m not one of those guys.

Sorry, I said 8900 because my 22 was rated for that. But my payload was also 1411. Yes you are correct about payload. Anything added to the truck other then fuel deducts from that 1,036. Your truck has a GVWR. Total it can weigh. If you add your curb weight and payload that should match your trucks GVWR.

Here is the sticker off my 22

 

[Wampa]

Much appreciated. All good info, which helps, even though it doesn't--haha. Honestly, I'm pretty annoyed [with GM] by 8ball_99's 2022 ZR2's payload of 1411--my 2023 is down 26%. Wonder what was changed in 1 model year to drop the payload that much. When we're talking about my initial inquiry in this post, that extra 375lbs is huge!

Oh, one other question for those with more experience... I fully plan to add a weight distribution hitch. An RV dealer told me that a weight distribution hitch will actually "lessen" the tongue weight (which seems logical). But I wonder if the weight "relief" is significant enough. Thoughts?

 

[8ball_99]

Much appreciated. All good info, which helps, even though it doesn't--haha. Honestly, I'm pretty annoyed [with GM] by 8ball_99's 2022 ZR2's payload of 1411--my 2023 is down 26%. Wonder what was changed in 1 model year to drop the payload that much. When we're talking about my initial inquiry in this post, that extra 375lbs is huge!

Oh, one other question for those with more experience... I fully plan to add a weight distribution hitch. An RV dealer told me that a weight distribution hitch will actually "lessen" the tongue weight (which seems logical). But I wonder if the weight "relief" is significant enough. Thoughts?

My guess is you have a AEV Bison version? I've heard it adds a few hundred pounds. Mine was a Regular ZR2, I Did have tech package and multiflex tailgate though. But yeah a extra 3-400lb in payload can make a big difference.

A WD hitch basically redistributes some of the weight. It spread some of that tongue weight to the front axles on the truck and trailer. So short answer is yes, it can reduce the tongue weight, but not much of it is transferred back to the trailer. So it wouldn't make a ton of difference as far as payload or the trucks GVWR. It would help though. Same time expect 12% or so of the trailers GVWR to be on the truck. Without enough tongue weight you will get sway, especially at highway speeds.

A WD hitch also helps with that RGAWR number. That's your rear gross axle weight rating. Which honestly I tend to worry about more then payload really. Especially with added bags or helper springs. WD hitch helps move some of that tongue weight to the front axles.

 

[AXE]

Much appreciated. All good info, which helps, even though it doesn't--haha. Honestly, I'm pretty annoyed [with GM] by 8ball_99's 2022 ZR2's payload of 1411--my 2023 is down 26%. Wonder what was changed in 1 model year to drop the payload that much. When we're talking about my initial inquiry in this post, that extra 375lbs is huge!

Oh, one other question for those with more experience... I fully plan to add a weight distribution hitch. An RV dealer told me that a weight distribution hitch will actually "lessen" the tongue weight (which seems logical). But I wonder if the weight "relief" is significant enough. Thoughts?

Nothing changed cause the chassis and hard parts are the same. However, they did figure out the rear leaf springs are soft and so are the Multimatic DSSV shocks, so any additional weight compromises the load that can be handled safely.

If I recall, you can get a set of Deavers springs with an overload leaf for the 1500s.

 

[Wampa]

My guess is you have a AEV Bison version? I've heard it adds a few hundred pounds. Mine was a Regular ZR2, I Did have tech package and multiflex tailgate though. But yeah a extra 3-400lb in payload can make a big difference.

A WD hitch basically redistributes some of the weight. It spread some of that tongue weight to the front axles on the truck and trailer. So short answer is yes, it can reduce the tongue weight, but not much of it is transferred back to the trailer. So it wouldn't make a ton of difference as far as payload or the trucks GVWR. It would help though. Same time expect 12% or so of the trailers GVWR to be on the truck. Without enough tongue weight you will get sway, especially at highway speeds.

A WD hitch also helps with that RGAWR number. That's your rear gross axle weight rating. Which honestly I tend to worry about more then payload really. Especially with added bags or helper springs. WD hitch helps move some of that tongue weight to the front axles.

Yes, Bison. I thought that might be part of it, but still annoying. Especially ‘cause now I have to factor all that when/if I get the winch added. That would likely kill any payload when towing a trailer. Hindsight, as they say…

 

[Wampa]

Nothing changed cause the chassis and hard parts are the same. However, they did figure out the rear leaf springs are soft and so are the Multimatic DSSV shocks, so any additional weight compromises the load that can be handled safely.

If I recall, you can get a set of Deavers springs with an overload leaf for the 1500s.

Not sure if the Deavers work on a ZR2; only mentions the Trail Boss. However, I’m looking into the RAS helpers: https://activesuspension.com/products/chevrolet-1500-silverado-pickup-1990-2021-hd

 

[AXE]

May have to call Cognito, but this comes up on there website when you select ZR2.

Deaver Mini Leaf Pack Set for 19-24 Silverado/Sierra 1500 2WD/4WD

Each Kit Features: Replaces the harsh thick bottom overload spring Progressive spring rate for better ride quality Increases rear lift height, adjustable 1-3 inches Sold as a set 2 hour DIY Install Time Made in the USA

cognitomotorsports.com

 

[8ball_99]

Yes, Bison. I thought that might be part of it, but still annoying. Especially ‘cause now I have to factor all that when/if I get the winch added. That would likely kill any payload when towing a trailer. Hindsight, as they say…

Kind of figured it was a Bison. They aren't ideal for towing. ZR2 already has less payload and towing then other trims. Toss that extra steel on there and it's really low for a 1500. What's weird is the newer colorado bison has like 1050 of payload even with factory 35"s. You would think the bigger truck would have a little more. My HD ZR2 has 3,333 of payload. So more then double of my previous 1500 ZR2.

FWIW, I had bags on my 1500 ZR2 and I often exceeded it's payload, lol. I mean you shouldn't. But the big limiting factor is the soft suspension. Motor and trans is the same as other trims. I pulled my mother-N-Laws 37foot camper down to AL from TN with my 1500. Transmission and engine temps stayed normal. Definitely a combo I wouldn't want to own, But it did fine. Just my tractor and the trailer I haul it on is front heavy and put my 1500 completely on the bump stops. Which was why I bagged it to start with. That's why I mentioned that I usually worry more about the RGAWR then payload. I pulled my tractor pretty often and that combo definitely was over my trucks payload and was only possible with the bags aired up. Keep in mind though, Over weight is over weight. Adding bags or springs doesn't change the trucks ratings. So as far as the legal and liability aspect goes. Doesn't matter if the added springs handles the weight. My 1500 had to get bags instantly. On the flip side I'm a year and 12k miles in on my 2500. I haven't added any bags yet. I probably will just cause they do improve handling while towing. But even with the 1500Lb of tongue weight from my toyhauler plus stuff in the bed hasn't made me need them. If I had kept the 1500 would have really limited me on my RV choices. Personally I just had to decide I was trying to make a square peg fit into a round hole with the 1500, lol.

 

[Wampa]

Yeah, I get all that’s said. ‘Bags, springs, etc. just help with ride and comfort, not a fix for low payloads. And I just shoulda known better the steel add-ons of the Bison would drastically change towing and payload.

We didn’t necessarily get the ZR2 for towing, and the Bison we ended up with was too good of a price to pass up (brand new, ~$10k under MSRP). Unfortunately, we tend to buy and keep vehicles forever, so an “upgrade” to another truck isn’t likely any time soon (and I just don’t have a valid reason for an HD—the ZR2 is my daily, and we won’t tow often enough to justify one).

Funny enough, last truck we bought (brand new ‘06 Z71) didn’t have the tow ratings we wanted back then and I said we wouldn’t do that again! Well, I am a slow learner (as Anakin Sky-guy said).

With all the great info provided here, I’m confident we will be able to make a good decision. And if the trailer we get isn’t the right set-up, etc., the wife and I will just have to talk about upgrades. Or go back to tent camping.

 

[AXE]

If you put bags on it, you can tow just fine. I never tow without bags in last 25 years. Keeping the truck level and weight on the front axle makes a huge difference even if your maxed out on the rear or trailer axles.

 

[Paulie-G]

Who makes a air bag set up for the ZR2 ?
Btw. You can call and talk to Deaver directly or talk to Dirt King.
Past experience with Cognito was terrible. They could have killed my wife when a part of their lift kit failed on the fwy.
I had to buy the replacement parts. Nobody does that. Expensive kit too.